And about trans women, we simply live in a time when people are allowed to do what they want to themselves and theres alot of people who would like to be in different bodies than the ones they have. Not that its comparable but sometimes I play male characters in DnD because the experience of playing a man is different from playing a woman. The idea that some men may transition to female for the sake of the benefits brought in by feminism probably is true but thats not the vast majority of it. Lots of trans people do it in places where they are worse off for doing it and may even be killed or beaten up for it. The fact that people are more able to do it in our society is just a sign that people are safer and freer here.
SJWs are feminists though.
Our society is generally pro-feminist and you don’t need to look any further than the rhetoric of our top “leaders”, such as Justin Trudeau in Canada, being unapologetically pro-feminist. Women are constantly told that they deserve more and that men deserve less. I think this inflation of female entitlement is no coincidence; I do not think Incel was anywhere near as common even 30 years ago.
As a young teenager I used to be fine with feminism. I am much more a shy/quiet type and thought this would be a mutually beneficial exchange where women get to do things men do, and women in turn become more accepting of men who do not live up to traditional masculine qualities.
This has been proven to not be true at all and women still want men confined to traditional behaviour and roles in every sense of the word (i.e. I wouldn’t be surprised if women are even less accepting of faults in a male than they used to be), while thinking they should be allowed to do whatever they want. This I am NOT okay with and have consequently become very anti-feminist.
All SJWs are feminists but not all feminists are sjws. The same way that most terrorists are Muslim but not most Muslim people are terrorists.
With that, my point is that sjws radicalized feminism and it doesn’t mean that that’s the norm for most people that are feminist.
On your point that you thought women would become more accepting of non masculine traits I don’t really know anybody that has a problem with non masculine traits so I don’t entirely understand what you mean. Elaborate please?
Men who can provide for them.
Men who make the first move(s). (For me this was the first thing down into the rabbit hole)
Men who are entirely independent.
Men who are stoic and do not talk about feelings.
Men who are dangerous and/or demonstrate capability to defend (i.e. guys in jail).
Women expect men to want:
How can women demand men to be traditional when they go around on cock carousals? Enabled by feminism.
I agree!!! Nothing else needs to be said.
@william close the thread
I mean I think these are some really intense glittering generalizations. I want almost none of these things that are on this list and honestly I don’t know a feminist that if they truly believe what they’re fighting for would want most of these things either…
I have a lot of personality and ambition expectations from people which have nothing to do with traditional manlihood and I would expect someone to have the same amount of expectations of me otherwise why are they around me when they could literally get sex anywhere else…
I think it’s a contradiction to say that the women that want to be feminists also traditional men. I think majority of women aren’t actually feminist and thus they want traditional men and the ones that are truly feminist want a change and I think you’re just getting the lines blurred.
gonna add to your list a little.
Men who can provide for them.
Men who make the first move(s).
Men who are entirely independent. but needs her around.
Men who had a great relationship with their mothers, but aren’t a “momas boys”
Men who are stoic and do not talk about feelings.
Men who have empathy and understand her feelings.
Men who are dangerous and exciting.
Men who are stable and consistent.
although that list may seem impossible, it’s important to remember that not every woman wants the same things. just like men.
If they ride the cock carousal, then they are a feminist by definition of violating traditional expectations.
Women know that feminism is becoming a very unpopular term for a good reason, so many will not refer to themselves as feminists with their words (but actions speak otherwise). They do this for the same reason they do most things, exploiting gullible men.
Yeah it’s even worse than that.
Sometimes the same woman will want “Men who have empathy and understand her feelings” and other times “Men who are stoic and do not talk about feelings.”
What determines when she wants what? Her feelings, which are random as shit.
Someone with feminist traits isn’t a feminist.
Ex.) If I’m pro-choice, but I’m conservative in all other ways, I’m politically a Republican still. My single Democrat trait doesn’t negate my Republican-ness.
If I get wasted every weekend, sleep with random people all the time in my late teens and early twenties, yet at the end of the day still want a strong providing husband, white picket fence and want to become a stay-home traditional mom, it doesn’t make me a feminist.
I see how it seems contradictory and perhaps it is for somebody to have such a different from traditional singular trait but it doesn’t negate the fact that all other 90% of their beliefs align with traditionalism.
not really, biology tells us that humans are wired to be loose and promiscuous, and then settle down later.
thats where and why self-control and respect comes into play (usually in the form of religion) and is so important for stable relationships.
At that point it is just the classic self-serving opportunism.
Their beliefs align with traditionalism for others, but not for themselves. As a consequence, I will believe in traditionalism for women but not for myself either. It’s only fair, otherwise I am being a cuck to those women you described. And this is how society falls apart.
Labels only have as much meaning as we assign to them. The dictionary definition of feminism is outdated. When you have self-proclaimed feminist “leaders” saying how there is still so much work to be done… yeah, that can only be in the case of it being a supremacist ideology. Otherwise that statement just plain doesn’t make sense by most measures.
I can live with that. It’s completely fair for you to ask why the double standard.
On this, I think there is still work to do, like making sure sexual harassment in the workplace and the streets are gone, but I don’t agree nor want female hierarchy. I would definitely love a better representation of genders in all fields though. It’s lonely in the STEM world.
All in all, thanks for the civilized discourse
Honestly I think the male suicide rate alone is indicative enough that people feel worse off than before, especially looking at how male and female suicide rates changed in the past century.
Ironically men and women used to be equal in this respect, but now males commit suicide at a rate 4x of women. Interestingly women are also committing suicide at slightly higher rates than they did in the old days.
“Sexual harassment” can never be eliminated, as no society ever “eliminates” a crime. That’s an excuse to keep the cause going indefinitely (with its negative or “unintended” consequences) despite being impossible to achieve. You going to eliminate homicide and suicide too? And why is this such a serious issue compared to those things? Oh, right. Because nothing is worse than an (undesirable) male asking out a co-worker.
Regarding the STEM world, how certain are you that just as many women really want to do STEM as men?
The number of stay-at-home dads is way more imbalanced than the percentage of women in STEM as well.
yeah I guess you’re right on the fact that you can never be eliminated but I guess it could get better in a sense that more laws are in place to ensure that people that do it actually have more repercussions. I promise I’m not a huge me tooer, but if people are actually telling the truth and they have proof then I think there should be some type of quicker action.
I mean it just kind of makes your work life a bit uncomfortable in a place where you’re supposed to be the most professional. Work essentially is the world’s most safe space because everyone not really getting paid to give their opinions as much as they are to do a job, so I’m just bothered the second you shake that up.
I mean I don’t think people that would leave stem just due to the fact that there aren’t enough women in it belong in it in the first. But I can attest to myself pretending to be more dumb then I was for a couple of years just because I got bullied a bit for being the nerd of a class. I’m not sure if this is a woman specific phenomenon or it happens to everybody but if it is a women’s specific one perhaps that would affect somebody future if they pretend to be dumb long enough. I also can’t really completely be sure though cause I got the minority women thing and I’m not sure if it was a product of being black or having XX chromosomes. I think both.
That’s traditionalism there, I don’t approve. If a man did want to stay at home, I hope no one would stop him if it were financially viable.
“I mean I don’t think people that would leave stem just due to the fact that there aren’t enough women in it belong in it in the first. But I can attest to myself pretending to be more dumb then I was for a couple of years just because I got bullied a bit for being the nerd of a class. I’m not sure if this is a woman specific phenomenon or it happens to everybody but if it is a women’s specific one perhaps that would affect somebody future if they pretend to be dumb long enough. I also can’t really completely be sure though cause I got the minority women thing and I’m not sure if it was a product of being black or having XX chromosomes. I think both.”
Men always got bullied for being nerds. Definitely not a female thing. When it happens to men, they generally suck it up and don’t complain, like most problems men have.
It’s another issue when women get treated poorly in some way and then go on to assume that it is a woman thing, as if men never get treated poorly because imaginary privilege. Quite the opposite, women tend to have stronger support networks.
Also was it men making fun of you, or other women?
I think the difference is that the other option is worse for us. You can just stop answering questions in class like the average kid. My alternatives were that or being the dummy, who all the boys seemed to wanna chase.
Ex:) I grew up in Florida, and in the middle of the class there was a girl that asked the teacher whether or not Florida was a city, state or continent.
Obviously an act but seeing that enough makes you also wanna act like an idiot if it means boys will talk to you as a girl who used to be ignored alot.
Both for the nerd thing. Other black people for the oh you know blacks don’t go to space etc etc.